Gatton, Jesse L. (Monsignor) - Interview and Memoir

              University of Illinois at Springfield
Norris L Brookens Library
Archives/Special Collections
Jesse L. Gatton Memoir
G229. Gatton, Jesse L. (Monsignor) (1889-1989)
Queen, Florianne (Sister)
Interview and memoir
5 tapes, 307 mins., 81 pp.
Monsignor Jesse Gatton, originally from Pawnee, recalls his lengthy career in the
Catholic Church. He discusses his work as chaplain of St. John's Hospital in
Springfield, as Diocesan Director of Hospitals and Vicar General, and his
retirement. He also discusses his family background and the Catholic Hospital
Association with references made to Pawnee in the early 1900's, the 1918
influenza epidemic, WWI, seminary training in Rome, the church in China and
the Russian government. Additional comments regarding Monsignor Gatton are
made by Sister Florianne Queen.
Interview by Sister Arlene Winkler, 1983
OPEN
See collateral file: photocopied photographs of the Msgr., his family, and co-workers;
newspaper articles, teaching materials, and essays.
Archives/Special Collections LIB 144
University of Illinois at Springfield
One University Plaza, MS BRK 140
Springfield IL 62703-5407
© 1983, University of Illinois Board of Trustees
CHILDREN'S HOME
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LIFE IN ALTON
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MONSIGNOR JESSE L. GATTON
Preface
This manuscript is the product of tape-recorded interviews conducted by
Sister Arlene Winkler for the Oral History Office at Sangamon State
University during the fall of 1983. Sister Arlene transcribed the tape
and edited the transcript. Monsignor Gatton reviewed the transcript.
Monsignor Jesse Gatton was born in Pawnee, Illinois on May 17, 1889. He
attended Quincy College and studied for the priesthood at the North
American College in Rome through a scholarship. He was ordained and said
his first holy Mass in Rome in 1917.
In 1918 Monsignor began his ministry as chaplain at St. John's Hospital in
Springfield, Illinois. He also served the diocese at the Children's Home
in Alton, Illinois. In 1926 he returned to St. John's Hospital and
assisted Father Straub with the work of the Hospital Sisters many
hospitals. Monsignor witnessed the laying of the cornerstone of St. John's
Hospital in 1938 and was instrumental in building on the west wing of the
hospital. In 1944 Monsignor was appointed Diocesan Director of Hospitals
for the Springfield diocese. In this position he has been a consultant in
hospital problems for the Catholic Hospital Association of North America
and Canada. He resigned from this post in 1971.
Monsignor Gatton received various honorary degrees. In 1945 he became a
papal chamberlain, a dignity that manifested his service to mankind. In
1952 Pope Pius XII elevated him to the rank of Domestic Prelate with the
title of Right Reverend Monsignor. In 1954 he was appointed by the Bishop
as Vicar General for the Springfield diocese and he served in this capacity
for twenty years. In 1956 he was made a Protonary Apostolic by Pope Pius XII.
Following his retirement from the active ministry in 1975, Monsignor Gatton
resided at St. Francis Convent where he continued his priestly life.
The interviewer, Sister Arlene Winkler is a member of the religious order
of the Hospital Sisters of the Third Order of St. Francis whose Motherhouse
is in Springfield, Illinois. She was missioned in several of the hospitals
of her order. She obtained her Masters degree in Gerontology and is
currently caring for the elderly Sisters of her religious community at St.
Francis Convent.
Readers of the oral history memoir should bear in mind that it is a
transcript of the spoken word, and that the interviewer, narrator and
editor sought to preserve the informal, conversational style that is
inherent in such historical sources. Sangamon State University is not
responsible for the factual accuracy of the memoir, nor for views expressed
therein; these are for the reader to judge.
The manuscript may be read, quoted and cited freely. It may not be
reproduced in whole or in part by any means, electronic or mechanical,
without permission in writing from the Oral History Office, Sangamon State
·University, Springfield, Illinois, 62794-9243.
TABLE OF CONTENTS
Pawnee in the Early 1900's
The Seminary Course in Rome
World War I and Return to U.S.
St. John's Hospital
Parents and Home Life
Duties as Chaplain of St. John's
Flu Epidemic
Work in Alton and at St. John's
Father Straub
Catholic Hospital Association
Mr. Murphy
Father Gatton's Silver Jubilee
Diocesan Director of Hospitals
Duties as Vicar General
The Prefect Apostolic
Retirement
New Canon Law on Religious
Life
The Church in China
Vatican 11
Rebels Within the Church
Russia and the u.s.
Closing Comments
Additional Recollections
by Sister Florianne Queen
Note: Illustrations following pages 19,27,47
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Jesse L. Gatton, October 1, 1983, Springfield, Illinois.
Sister Arlene Winkler, Interviewer.
Q: Monsig~or, would you want to tell me a little bit about yourself?
A: Why, I was born on May 17, 1889 in the town by the name of Pawnee about
fifteen miles south of Springfield in a family of twelve, four girls and
four boys, then two girls and two boys. I was in the middle, the oldest
boy and was an old pro. See, and I attended the public school grade school
and public high school in Pawnee. Graduated in 1908.
Q: Would you want to now take me on a little tour of Pawnee, how it was in
your day?
A: I was just going to tell you. It was really a small village at that
time. While we were in high school they opened up a coal mine in Pawnee, a
Peabody coal mine. The company built a lot of homes for the people who
were to come in and work in the mines. It happened that a lot of these
people who moved in were mostly Catholics. So they came and demanded a
church. It was impossible for them to go to Glenarm where we had always
gone to church which was six miles away. And they didn't have Mass there
every Sunday. So they asked for a church to be built and the Bishop gave
permission to build a church. And when the church was built it became a
mission of Auburn under Father Ryan. Later the first pastor became Father
Wilson. Now Father Wilson was a Bostonian. He had studied two years in
medicine and then he gave up medicine to join the priesthood. He wanted to
go to Rome for studies but Boston's quota of scholarships was filled. So
he [Father Wilson] wrote around for some Bishop to accept him and the
Bishop from Alton accepted him. This was the last scholarship at that time
that Alton had. They [Alton] sent him over to Rome for four years. He
took his philosophy, theology and corresponding studies over at Rome at the
North American College. He was ordained in Rome. So he was our first
pastor. In the meantime, the church was built, an old time church made of
wood. Father Wilson built the rectory. He gathered up all the boys that
were going to high school and we had sort of a clubroom down in the
basement of the home and we used to go down there every night. There
weren't many other places to go. He had a nice clubroom and he used to
talk to us and he told us a lot of things about the history of the church,
its work and its purpose. We got half of our education from the pastor.
Then he became the pastor there. After I had finished my high school he
had taken care of the mission outside of Pawnee, Southfork mission, which
was about six miles out. He had a horse and buggy. I remember when I was
in high school, I used to take care of his horse and buggy and take him to
Southfork. Then when I finished up high school, he wanted to know whether
I had given any thought to study for the priesthood. And I told him, "I
had thought about it but it was impossible for a family of twelve, didn't
have enough money to send anyone away (laughs) to be a priest." So he
said, "You leave me see what I can de about this. If you want to go, I
Jesse L. Gatton 2
think I can fix this up." So he went out and talked to a man by the name
of Howard. Howard was a big cattle raiser in the county who had plenty of
money and so he told him the circumstances. And he [Howard] furnished the
money for a scholarship over at Quincy College in Quincy, Illinois. So the
year after graduation I went over to Quincy College for four years. And
there why we studied what they called in those days the classical course.
They didn't have the regular divisions we have today 1 but they had the
classical course and the commercial course in the same college. I was
taking the classical course, that would be Latin, Greek and some German,
etc. We didn't have any philosophy there. We had English, history,
geometry and all that rest of the studies that goes with high school
studies. So I finally finished up four years. And we had German, over
there for example. I was getting to where I could speak German when I left.
That's too bad cause I'd like to talk German to Father Geelink but •••
Q: Oh you did?
A: After I came home from graduation from four yea~s of college over there
at Quincy, why there was a question of what seminary I would attend. And
he [Father Wilson] said, "How would you like to go to Rome? I was over in
Rome four years and I think it would be a very wonderful thing if you went
to Rome. You're capable of doing it according to the reports that are
out." And I said, "I would love to go but there are no finances." And he
said, "Well, the diocese had two scholarships for Rome." There was an
Irish boy for one scholarship, just finishing up and he said, "I'll go down
and talk to the Bishop about this and we'll see what we can do." And the
Bishop said, "We'll send him to Rome." So, that's how I got to Rome. We
stayed in Rome for our regular seminary course which was the study of
philosophy, theology, scripture, history and everything else that goes
along with the college courses in those days. I spent six years in Rome at
the North American College. It was owned by the Bishops of the United
States and was set up by the Bishops to teach the students who went over to
study for the priesthood. So there was in Rome about two or three hundred
students at the North American College, some from nearly every diocese in
the United States. I went over in 1912 and I was over there six years.
That means I finished up in 1918. Now it was always the custom to ordain
at least two men early in the class so in December, the 22nd of 1917,
myself and a man from Boston were chosen out of the class. So I was
ordained after a ten day retreat at St. John's Lateran Church. This church
is the Mother church of all the churches, even ahead of St. Peters as far
as that goes. We were ordained on the 22nd of December and I said my first
Mass the next day. This Mass was at the Shrine of Our Lady of Perpetual
Help, at St. Alphonsus, owned by the Redemptorists. We had gone there to
make a retreat. During the last two years I was in Rome there was a man
who come over from Boston. He had been the attorney general of Boston.
And thi~ man, for some reason or the other, and I became very great
friends. He had a daughter who was in the Embassy. He was an elderly man.
He had two daughters, one daughter in London and one daughter in Paris. He
used to go up and see them during vacation. He served my first Mass for
there was none of my family over there. I remember that.
Q: What was his name?
I
l
Jesse L. Gatton 3
A: I forgot his name. He had special permission from the Holy Father to
study for the priesthood for he was an elderly man. And he took the two
year course over there because he had the background as attorney general
for a lot of the things we had studied. So the war come along in 1900 or
so. That war began in 1910.
Q: The first World War?
A: The first World War came along and we didn't have any passports.
Nobody had a passport in those days. Nobody traveled with a passport but
we had to get an identification if we stayed in Rome when Mussolini took
Italy into the war as a partner of Germany. This put us in a bad position.
So the American Ambassador to Italy at that particular time got it
straightened up with Mussolini and we each got a passport, so we could show
it. We had to carry it with us to show it to.anybody that asked for it
that we were in good standing as far as we were concerned. So we got a
chance to finish up our course in Rome which was in 1918. The last final
examination that we took was in June. And ten days or two weeks before
this six students and myself went up to Assisi to study. We stayed at what
we call today a motel where we did some reviewing together. Being ordained
already, why we had a chance to say Mass there at all the shrines of St.
Francis and the whole neighborhood. I remember one day we went up the
mountain for the Transitus where St. Francis received the stigmata. St.
Francis received the stigmata on Mt. Alverna. A brother took us around.
We had to go up in a carriage. That you see it in the book which you took
over. So he took us on a tour of the shrine and when he got through he
said, '~ou wait here in the room and I want to get you something to drink
before you start down the mountain." So we went for a pot of coffee. It
was not really coffee, it was chickory you know. (laughter) We didn't
have any coffee in Italy. We couldn't get it in anymore. And he said,
"I'll be back." As soon as we found out what it was why we poured it out
of the window. He came back and then we returned to the hotel. The next
day we went back to Rome and took the examination.
Q: What was this examination for?
A: This final examination was for all the things you had been taking. For
example, when I got through with philosophy why I had a Ph. D. from Rome.
And then I had a S.T.L. for Theology. That's a licence to teach theology.
You have to have a license to teach theology. So those two titles why I
got from Rome when we were all through. We left Rome to come home in the
middle of the First World War. We had our passport with us. We went up to
Paris. Paris was an enemy of Germany. And we stayed in Paris, I think for
a week or two. And all the trains of American soldiers were around Paris
so we went around and said Mass at all the famous shrines in Paris and then
we went down to Bordo. We were going to sail from Bordo. That's a river
town which is about ten miles in from the Atlantic Ocean. We stayed and we
slept on the boat. During the day we went sightseeing on the countryside.
We never knew when the boat was going to sail because it depended upon the
submarines out on the Atlantic. One night after midnight, we left Bordo
and went down to the mouth of the river. The mouth of 'the river is quite
wide and they had a chain across the mouth of the river so that the
submarines couldn't get into the river. There must have been at least one
Jesse L. Gatton 4
hundred boats of all kinds of shapes and forms standing around there
waiting to get orders to leave. We stayed there three or four days and
when we woke up, why we were on the outside of the river. We had a gun
boat up here (points) in front and a gun boat back there and we were in
between these two boats. And they stayed with us for three days in case a
submarine would find us. And we woke up the fourth morning and the
submarines were gone and we came the rest of the way home. On that boat
there were about twenty priests. We were going on the way back to America.
We didn't know if we were getting home or not. Of course this was a half
freight and a half passenger boat. When we got over near America, we got
notice that the submarines were working along the north coast of the
Atlantic of the United States so we went down south, as far as Florida and
came in up as near the coast that we could come, safely, with the boat.
Then we came up on this side of the Atlantic Ocean to New York.
Q: So you first went to Florida and then all the way around to New York?
A: Yes, in case we got hit with a submarine we could swim to the shore.
(laughs)
Q: Did you feel frightened when you were on this boat?
A: No. I think by that time we had just learned to take whatever ·Came.
And it was a very hard trip because we had very little food on the boat.
The thing that lost the war over there for Germany was the lack of food and -
the lack of ammunition. They had enough men and they had enough guns but
they didn't have any or enough food to speak of. We were living in the
college very sparingly. We got a little piece of meat about so big (shows
with his fingers about two inches square) like a postage stamp. And once a
day we got an egg. We got vegetables but they were scarce. So there was
nothing much on the boat to eat. We were tickled to death when we saw the
Statue of Liberty in New York. We didn't know yet whether we were going to
get home or not. But we got home. Finally we went through the custom
house. There wasn't any trouble there because they could see right away
with twenty of us that we were safe enough. We left New York for Chicago.
When I got to Chicago I stayed over one night with one of the boys. The
next night I took a sleeper from Chicago to Springfield and I got off in
Springfield the first part of August. I don't really remember the date.
Q: How long were you actually on the boat?
A: I think we were on it fourteen or fifteen days. It was a small boat.
It didn't travel fast.
Q: Were you able to say Mass during that time?
A: Well, I think we had an altar to say Mass and they sort of divided us
up. They didn't have what we call concelebration in those days. Everybody
said Mass for himself. They had a chapel fixed up for us. But anyway I
got on to Springfield. In the morning I got off a train in Springfield to
say Mass at St. John's Hospital and asked for Sister Ernesta. She was a
cousin of mine. She worked in the laboratory. The Sisters then didn't
know anything about laboratory work. They were just beginning to use a
Jesse L. Gatton 5
laboratory and they didn't know how to safeguard themselves against
diseases and so she [Sister Ernesta] got T.B. She was very, very delicate.
Her name is over there on the tombstone. (Points to the cemetery across
from his window.) But anyway she was at the Motherhouse. This place, this
Motherhouse, wasn't in existence but she was at the Motherhouse and I went
over and Sister Blanche was at the entrance. She was cleaning around and
she said, "Young man, who are you?" (laughs) And I said, "Well, my name
is Gatton and I came to say Mass for Sister Ernesta. She is here as far as
I know from the last letter that I had gotton. I wish you would notify her
that I am going in the sacristy to get ready for Mass." So she [Sister
Ernesta] came down and attended Mass. And so I had my first Mass in
America at the chapel of St. John's Hospital, at the old chapel. And after
Mass I went into the rectory to have breakfast. Father Straub was there,
Director of Hospitals, and he came in and sat down at the dining room table
and we talked for quite a While. (laughs) He wanted to know what my name
was and I said, "My name is Gatton." (laughs) And he said, "Why you're
our new chaplain. Anyway we got a letter from the Bishop and he has
appointed you as chaplain of St. John's because the other chaplain had just
left for Edwardsville. They were having trouble down there. He had been
stationed in Edwardsville. There were a lot of Germans down there at that
time." And he [Father Straub] said, "We haven't got any chaplain. I'm
busy myself buying this land. We're going to build a sanatorium out here
for these people with T.B." Then I said, "Well, I got to go. I got to
catch a train home. I haven't been home for six years." And "Oh," he said,
"I thought you came to stay as I received a letter from the Bishop and he
said that you were appointed chaplain."
Q: Was that a shock to you?
A: Yes, I didn't want that job. That was a job with a big responsibility.
Q: What did you want? Did you know?
A: Well, our training was for parish work. See all the boys were out in
parish work and even so you wouldn't stay in hospital work very long. But
anyway he said, "You're scheduled to come here as chaplain. I don't know
when. You're suppose to get a letter when you get home." So I caught the
train and went home. Now that was on a Friday, August 10. So when I got
home there was a letter there from the Bishop and he said, "You are
appointed chaplain of St. John's Hospital and you are to report there and
have Mass on August 15."
Q: So that was ••
A: That was one of the feasts of Our Lady, the Assumption. So you see we
were a long time coming over on the boat. But I was happy to say the first
Mass at home. Why I got home, we got ready for the first Mass on Sunday,
August 12. We had quite a crowd. Of course the whole parish came in and
we had a big dinner out in the woods.
Q: Was that in Pawnee?
A: Yes.
Jesse L. Gatton 6
Q: What was the name of the church?
A: St. Mary's. It's still there. A lot of the Franciscan Fathers came
over to the Mass. I was suppose to report on the 15th of August to St.
John's. So I didn't have but a good two or three days at home. And I came
and I reported to work at St. John's Hospital and said Mass there on the
15th of August in 1918. That's when I started to work.
Q: You mentioned about your parents, you went home to say your first Mass.
Could you describe your parents to me. What were they like?
A: Well Dad, of course was an old settler. He had come over, or the
Gattons came over from Baltimore, with Lord Baltimore and settled in
Maryland. They were old timers. And from Baltimore, Maryland they went
down to Kentucky. And from Kentucky they came up to Illinois, the central
part of Illinois just before the Civil War. See, they settled about ten
miles south of Springfield and they started raising cattle. When the
cattle got ready for the market why they had to take them to New York so
they drove these cattle in big groves, you know, and they had stations like
motels and so forth all the way between here and New York. They [the
people] stayed overnight in these places and fed the cattle and rested the
cattle and so forth. They drove them all the way. They didn't have any
railroads over here at that time. And finally they built the railroad and
this is the place that we call the GATTON station, the railroad. This went
out of business a long time. This was the Pawnee, that Pawnee station.
Q: (Pointing to railroad photo) Was that the place where the cattle went?
A: No, no. This was another railroad that ran up to Springfield when the
coal mine was built there.
Q: This is the same one? (pointing to a picture)
A: That's the same station. (pause) Mother, Mother's name, see the
Gatton's were Irish. They came over from Ireland, the potato country
during the potato panic. They went over to England thinking that they'd
get something to eat in England. The Irish didn't have anything to eat.
They found out that the same conditions existed but there was no way of
them knowing this in Ireland because the communications was not very great
in those days. They finally were able to pay their bills. They [the
government officials] threw them in jail until they paid their bills. They
paid them and when Lord Baltimore went over to England to bring some people
over to America, why the [the government officials] came and told them [the
Gattons] that any man that was in jail and would come along with him, why
they would forgive him. They would give him his freedom. They would take
any of the jailers. So Dad came along with the jailers and Lord Baltimore.
Q: Well that's •••
A: That's the story. And they got over I guess. All of them were glad to
come. They didn't know what America was. They painted it up. Lord
Baltimore would do that. But anyway that's the way they got here. But the
grandmother, see mother's mother's mother, her name was Gutenheimer. She
Jesse L. Gatton 7
was a German and he [Dad] came over because work was very poor in Germany.
He heard this was a wonderful place to go and he landed out in New Berlin.
And my mother was the daughter of the Gutenheimer's so I don 9t know how Dad
met her because Dad was in Pawnee and she was in New Berlin. (laughs)
Anyway they got together someway and raised a big family. That brings you
down part of the way.
Q: Yes, that's real interesting.
A: Well I don't know if it is interesting to somebody else.
Q: It sure is. What about the rest of the members in your family? Want
to tell me about your brothers and sisters?
A: If I'd tell you about them (laughs) you'd never [believe it.] They're
all over the country, the Gattons today. I have only one sister living.
There are only two of us left. That's myself, the oldest boy and the
youngest girl and she's living out in Arizona. She moved down to
California to the mountains for the summertime because it's too hot in
Arizona. So the Gattons were spread all over the country. I don't know
half of the grandchildren any more.
Q: Here's a photo of your dad. (pointing to one of his mother, dad and
youngest brother)
A: Yes, yes, that's right, the big three. This is Mother and Dad. See,
he was Irish and she was German. This is the youngest boy. It looks like
myself but it is the youngest boy. He died there just a couple of years
ago.
Q: What was his name?
A: Ambrose.
Q: Ambrose. Was you close to him?
A: Was I close to him? Yes. Oh, yes. He was born fifteen years after
the last child before him. I can remember Mother and Dad lived a second
life because of Ambrose. They used to go to football games and softball
games with Ambrose because he was playing in them. He brought them much
joy. He married a girl that was not a Catholic but became a Catholic. He
lived in Pawnee and was working down there. We go down there nearly every
Sunday and have lunch with her. She lives all by herself, very lonesome
and lonely like widows are. She don't know what to do with herself. We
call her up and find out if she's f"eeling well. She puts on a bowl of soup
or something. (laughs) But Dad was a very handsome fellow. Now he was
very popular at home and he helped out everybody that possibly needed any
help. All the widows came over to see Dad and he took care of them.
(laughs)
Q: They did?
A: Yes, with finances and how they were getting along. Mother was a
Jesse L. Gatton 8
grand, grand lady. You wouldn't think that she had raised twelve children,
would you?
Q: No, you wouldn't.
A: No, they were a wonderful couple and they were so proud that I had went
off to the priesthood.
Q: I imagine • • •
A: He [Dad] was still living. They were both living when I came home from
Rome. They were down at the station when I got there and we had a big
celebration.
Q: I imagine that was a happy moment after you were gone for six years.
A: Well, you know, a very strange thing happened from the time I got
there. Over in Rome, why we were on a scholarship from the diocese and
when I needed money why I'd write to Dad for some money and so forth and he
[Dad] finally sent me a checkbook.
Q: Oh?
A: That's when I wrote out my own checks and there wasn't another man in
the whole college [that had a checkbook like I did]. I had a very good
friend from Chicago, a close friend in Chicago and his father got very sick
the last year in Rome, the year before we came home, the 16th. He had been
so close to his dad that he wanted to come home for the funeral and they
[the authority at the college] gave him permission to come. My friend's
father didn't have any money so he came to me and said, "I know you got a
checkbook." (laughter) And he said, "Do you think you could write me out
a check that would pay my way home? When I get home, I'll pay you right
away. I've got to leave right away." So I wrote him out a check.
q: That's very wonderful.
A: That was a lot of money in those days. And when the check came into
the bank in Pawnee, the bank called up Dad and said, "Why, you don't have
that much money in the bank." (laughter)
End of Side One, Tape One
A: So you know what? So two days after this fellow got home, why he sent
Dad the check.
Q: That was real nice.
A: Otherwise he would have been in jail. (laughter) They were very good
people though.
Q: Is there anything more you want to say about your parents?
Jesse L. Gatton 9
A: Well Dad, Dad was in all kinds of business. He had to raise enough
money to raise twelve children. That would be even a hard job today but it
was a much harder job in those days. He was doing anything that he could
do to make enough money. But one thing he got into was the chicken
business. In those days why they [neighbors] used to go around and gather
up the chickens. They had a chicken market and we'd gather the chickens
and bring them up to Springfield to market. They dressed them here, iced
them and sent them to New York. (This is really pioneer stuff.) Then they
did some (bounces pencil on desk) butchering for the farmers. They didn't
do anything they didn't make any money on. They were a frugile family.
But they were great pioneers. If we had people like them today, why we
wouldn't be in war that we're going through, I'm sure.
Q: Did you have to help them with any of the • • •
A: Oh, yes. (laughs) I had to help. First of all I had four girls [my
sisters] to take care of. I was the oldest boy and four girls ahead of me.
I had an awful time taking care of those four girls.
Q: You did, why? (laughter)
A: No, it was a very wonderful family. When we were horn Why there wasn't
any church at home in Pawnee. We went over to Glenarm six miles away.
That's Where we went. One of the priests came over from Glenarm for
church. And we used to drive six miles by horse and buggy whenever he was
there. But in the house at home every night we knelt down and said the
rosary together as a family, I remember that so well.
Q: Do you want to tell me more about your home life?
A: We used to have what they called a smokehouse.
Q: A smokehouse?
A: A smokehouse. You know what that is? A house where they used to cook
and treat meat and so forth. Always the whole gang [our neighbors] used to
come over and we used to have a big popcorn party every other night. And
Father Wilson came and he had a clubroom down in his basement where we
played cards. He was a great man, he really was. He was a wonderful
singer and he had a great knowledge of all things. And he studied medicine
and philosophy and theology. Everybody in town liked him. Once in a while
he used to get busy and he had a way of letting us know when he was busy.
He pulled the curtain half way down and half way up and when he didn't have
the curtain up, why we knew when he wouldn't be down in the clubroom but we
used to go down anyway. It was a strange way of growing up but that's the
way things were.
Q: What were some of the tricks that you played in those days?
A: Oh, I don't know of tricks. I remember some of the things we did. The
last year in high school why there were three girls and one boy, myself, in
the class. I always get in there with all the whole gang. There were
three,girls and one boy. I was the only Catholic in the group. There was
Jesse L. Gatton 10
one girl's family that was quite prejudice, a very wealthy family. They
had a big farm. One girl's family whose father run the grocer store in
to~, later on became Catholic and she joined the Ursuline order. She is
still living do~ in Florida someplace. She didn't stay in the convent.
She was there about a couple of years I think, in the novitiate and then
she left. Once in a while I get a letter from her. But there's nobody in
the class that's left.
Q: Were there some other events that had meaning for you when you were
young?
A: Well, I don't think there was anything special. We did the ordinary
things that the rest of the children did.
Q: I notice here is a photo of the grade school in Pawnee.
A: Yes.
Q: Is that a special occasion?
A: This is the grade school. The school board tore it down. When they
got ready to build a new shcool why this fellow or board chairman called me
up. He wanted to know whether Bishop O'Connor would have any use for this
for a Catholic school. I was Vicar General at the time and I went up to
talk to him and he said, "Do you think we ought to buy that?" And I said,
"Why, it's worn out. You don't want to buy that."
Q: Going back to Pawnee, here's some pictures of a lake.
A: Two lakes.
Q: Two lakes?
A: Yes. (points to another photo) This is the young sister of mine,
Frieda, that's living and see this is the boy [Ambrose] that's in between
Mother and Dad in that other picture. And this is an ice house. Dad used
to be in the ice business and we took the ice up from the lake. That's
what the lakes were built for, to fill the ice house in the wintertime and
take it around to homes in other places. I don't know if you ever saw one
or not.
Q: No, I ·didn't.
A: Your ice boxes or refrigerators have been mechanical. But we used to
have to put the ice up. But these were for fishing. (points to another
photo) See, Frieda evidently was teaching him [Ambrose] how to fish. And
there was an opening between this lake and that lake so that water run
under there. This is sort of a bridge. And the house was up here and the
picture of the house is somewhere in there. And so we used to have to walk
·across this bridge to get up to the hill. Here is the ice house.
Q: And was that on your farm?
Jesse L. Gatton 11
A: Yes, that was on the farm. This is one of the lakes, the upper lake,
see.
Q: I notice the printing down here says, GATTON'S POND.
A: Yes.
Q: How did it get that name?
A: That's because we lived there.
Q: Oh, I thought maybe you named it that. (laughter)
A: Our house, the house was right there, up there on top of the hill. I
don't think there is a picture of the house left.
Q: No, and here it says
A: Do you know who that is?
Q: Yes, I do. That's you.
A: Yes. (laughs)
Q: And here's a fourth generation picture. Now who is that?
A: That's grandmother, the German grandmother that came over from Germany
and she was living until I got home. She just wanted to go to one of my
Masses at least. She died just ten minutes before I got home.
Q: Before you got home?
A: She lived with Mother and Dad. In those days why the [parents] took
care of their grandfather and grandmother.
Q: Now who is this?
A: Why I think that is one of the children. No, that's Mother, that's
Mother.
Q: And who is that?
A: I don't know.
Q: Must be your sister?
A: That looks like the oldest girl in the family, Lottie. The oldest girl
in the family, why she went to California. Got married to a fellow who had
been in California and did just fine. They're in California in Imperial
Valley. They just began to irrigate the Imperial Valley and he [her
husband] went out there to live. She got on the train and went out there
too. They were married out in California. That is the oldest girl.
(points to another photo) I don't know who that is. I wonder where that
place was.
Jesse L. Gatton 12
Q: It says, "The Children's Home in Alton".
A: This is Alton. That's right. I was there a year and a half. {points
to another photo) These are the other ones, of the sisters. I think that
is the oldest one that went to California and this is the third one of the
family. This is Mother and this is the old grandmother.
Q: This couldn't be your sister because it says, "Four generations." That
must be your sister's daughter?
A: Yes, yes, it could be.
Q: How old were your mother and father when they died?
A: Oh, well, I tell you I think Dad was somewhere around seventy years
old. He died at St. John's Hospital. He was the first one to die after I
got home. He and Mother lived all alone for about eight or ten years. She
was up there pretty far in age. But she liv~d alone. Her children took
care of her but she lived alone. I usually gave her my check, my monthly
check I got Which was nothing. 1 worked for $23 a month.
Q: You did? That was as chaplain?
A: Yes. If we got $200 a year you did pretty well. They [the children]
all contributed somewhat, but they were raising their own family.
Q: Here is a photo I notice says, "Pyramind attempted." You remember
that?
A: Oh yes. Do you find me there?
Q: Well, there is an X there. Could that be you?
A: Let me see. I think I was just climbing up there. I didn't get on top.
There are two or three of these pictures, I think, aren't there?
Q: Yes, there are more but I noticed that one with an X is the only
one • • •
A: That looked like me.
Q: That you are tumbling over.
A: Yes. That could be. All of these [seminarians] had scholarships and
there are some of the pictures that are not very clear.
End of Side Two, Tape One
Q: Monsignor, if you recall we were talking the last time about your
family and about the ice house.
Jesse L. Gatton 13
A: Yes.
Q: Is there anything else you want to tell me about that?
A: Is that already on the tape?
Q: Some of it is but I didn't know if there is something more you wanted
to mention. (pause)
A: Yes, yes. I would like to say that Dad was really one of the most
important men in town in his own way. See he was always thinking about
others and he was out when they called on him for help. Actually, when
anybody got into trouble, they called on Dad and all the widows and
everybody else in town (laughs) when their husband died, they were in bad
shape and they didn't know how to get along and so forth, why they called
Dad. And he always went out to help them and anybody else that asked him.
But his work at that particular time in history, why the wife of the farmer
raised the chickens in order to sell the chickens and eggs, but she kept the
money. And she used it for her own personal use and the personal use of
the children. Dad was in the chicken business. Now he would go around
whenever there was enough of them, would call in to gather the chickens and
he went around and gathered up all these chickens, eggs and so forth and he
brought them home. We had a big chicken house out in the back yard and
when he gathered enough for a load, a big load, why he brought them up to
Springfield to the chicken house where they picked them and cleaned them
and sent them up to the market to New York in the east. See, so then
besides that, that was the year around job that he had. Besides he in the
wintertime helped all these farmers do their butchering. They butchered a
lot of hogs for their own personal use. They used them. So he had a
fireplace in the back and he had a lot of wood and stuff and some of the
farmers brought their hogs in and they cleaned these hogs and dressed them
and sold them. This was part of his work. He got a certain amount of pay
for this. Then finally the ice business came along and he had to gather
into the ice business. He began to make an ice box. Now this ice box, I
don't know whether you've seen one or not, but this ice box was insulated.
And you used the ordinary ice from that you had put up during the
wintertime. We had a big ice house and when the ice got a certain
thickness, why he went out and planned the pond, a roll on this way and a
roll on this way (points with his hands) and then cut the chunk loose.
Then he sent it up and piled it up in the ice house and put a lot of saw
dust on it to keep it, the heat from getting in, in the summertime. Why
then in the summertime he would take this around and people would have
their milk, the meat and their butter, cream and so forth in'the ice box
instead of having it in the trough along in front of the pump to keep it
cool. So this lasted until the electric ice box came out, and when the
electric ice box came out why then that did away with the ice house and did
away with all the electricity of the ice around to the people. I know in
the summertime when we were on vacation (laughs) why that was part of our
job until noon to deliver ice to the houses. And then he was really a
wonderful man, Dad was. Anybody in town that needed any help why came to
him and he helped them. Sometimes he got paid and sometimes he didn't get
paid but it didn't make any difference to him. He really, he really was a
Christian man, a good fellow, Dad. I don't know whether I told you about
the church that we went to?
Jesse L. Gatton 14
Q: Yes, you did.
A: Yes, and in the evening we knelt down and said the family prayers
together, the rosary every night. That gives you an idea of the type of
man he was and the thing he was trying to pass on to the children. So, he
finally got old enough that he couldn't do this hard work anymore and he
sold all the stuff and bought a small house. We passed by it which you
saw.
Q: A house, yes.
A: We lived in this house, see while I was over in Quincy cause I used to
come home for vacation and my summer was spent helping him do the work he
was doing. -The other boys, we had two other boys that were big enough to
help and we helped him out. Now I think I don't know just how far we got.
I intended to look it up this morning. Do you remember?
Q: Yes. I think we are ready to start out. You told me all about your
first Mass that you had at St. John's and at Pawnee and then you were to
start your assignment as chaplain at St. John's Hospital.
A: Oh, at St. John's Hospital.
Q: Want to tell me a little bit about what your duties were there?
A: Well, as the chaplain, the things that I did when I first went there
was to go around and visit the patients and to administer the sacraments
and so forth. That would be the normal thing that the Catholic chaplain
would do. See and this was an unexpected assignment as far as I was
concerned because I expected to go out into parish work. I told you that,
I think. But after the flu came why I was busy night and day. That must
have been about the second year that I was there. And Fater Straub was out
here buying this land. See he came out on the interurban and got off at
the station down here. You couldn't drive on account of the mud. There
was no hard roads in those days. I learned to like the work. I had
changed my mind about it and I was very happy to stay there at the hospital
for six years and a half. I was chaplain there. And when I was chaplain
there the Sisters wanted to have a class in ethics. Did I tell you this?
Q: No, you didn't.
A: Yes, they wanted a class in ethics, especially the Sisters in the
operating room because the doctors were doing this and that and the other
thing and they [the Sisters] just didn't know how to handle it and they
didn't know what the position of the church was in on some of these things.
So I had started a class. First they [the council] wouldn't let me teach.
For about six months they decided it wasn't necessary and then finally the
council and Father Straub decided it was time the Sisters were having some
education along ethics so I began to teach them ethics. And then about
that time the state got busy because there was so many questions coming to
the state house about the hospital, that they got busy and set up a
department of hospitals. I think it was originally under the education
- department but it was the hospital department. And they had a man by the
Jesse L. Gatton 15
name of Dodd, D-o-D-D, and this man didn't know anything about hospitals
but this man used to come over to St. John's to learn something about them.
He was an Episcopalian I think, a very fine man he was. He'd come over to
lunch but he worked around the hospital. He tried to learn something about
hospitals and something about the work of the doctors and the school which
was just starting up. He is the one that started the school under the
state authority.
Q: Are you talking about the school of nursing?
A: Yes, the school of nursing, under Mr. Dodd. He was there at the time
that it started. They had a lot of girls, [who] were doing this and the
other thing but there was no regular training. So the state set up a
department of training a nurse and giving her a diploma after so many
years. I think it was about three years in the beginning. And they of
course built up little by little as it went along and relieved the Sisters
of a lot of work. The Sisters had been doing most of that and they [the
girls] were helping out with what the Sisters had told them to do but when
they started the school they got the regular course. I've forgotten all
the things they had in the course but this was one of the first schools
that was established in the country, a real school of nursing, at St.
John's Hospital in Springfield. My job was taking care of the spiritual
end of the patients. And I was doing all this other work, getting
acquainted with what the nurses were doing and teaching the n~rses some of
the ethics and a few other subjects besides. I really got interested into
the things. Then a lady came in, an Indian lady came in. She was married
to a Chinaman and they had a restaurant in town. She was a Catholic and
then she gave me an automobile. They had a big automobile. (laughs)
Q: Oh, she did?
A: A Studebaker, it had been used over the years. But I remember she gave
me this automobile. The engineer of St. John's and myself took this
automobile and went around and visited all the houses, [of the Hospital
Sisters] see, during our vacation time. That is when I learned this about
all these hospitals and about the condition the hospitals were in and so
forth. We had a lot of fun during that time. We had a man with us that
came up from Alton, a regular joker I think. I don't know whether we
mentioned him before but he went along with us to visit the place. We
stayed at the hospital all night for a couple of nights. We got stuck a
couple of times. They didn't have any hard roads. All roads were sand up
in Wisconsin and the engineer, Joe Michaels knew something about mechanics.
Whenever we got into any trouble why he was able to take care of us because
there was no garages along the road. The man at the filling station knew
something about automobiles. But they [automobiles] were just coming into
use at that particular time. And then, well finally after six and a half
years passed when I was doing this. Once in a while I gave a talk to the
Sisters and I definitely told them the ethics that we had had in the
seminary and then we applied it to the hospitals. And I think this was one
of the first books that was written, note books. Why I still have it over
there. {points to his bookcase)
Q: You mean you wrote the whole textbook that the nurses used?
Jesse L. Gatton 16
A: Well, we never had it printed. We talked to them, [the Sisters] made a
few notes and finally we printed, [or] we typewrote this and gave everybody
a copy of it but there was nothing formal about it, see that is in the
sense of printing or anything. They were very happy to get it. It would
be a good thing if they had it now I think. Of course I don't know whether
they [the nurses] get it there or no.
Q: Could you maybe mention a few of the problems they had at the time that
you saw the need for ethics?
A: For ethics. Well, their problems were mostly in the operating room.
Q: In the operating room?
A: Yes. The doctors would perform a ligation, for example, and the
Sisters knew they [the doctors] shouldn't be doing this. They [the
doctors] did this When the Sisters backs were turned (laughter) and they
were trying to get away with it and they did get away with it, a lot of
things because there was no formal prohibition or knowledge of this was
wrong as far as the doctors except that they knew that the Catholic church
was forbidding it. Some of the Sisters in the operating room really had a
hard time and they didn't have any help. After I'started to teach them why
they could quote the Catholic doctrine on the subject. So that is the work
that I was doing at the hospital and I learned to love it. Once in a while
I gave a conference to the Sisters when they asked. Father Straub was busy
getting this place out here together. And I think I told you about the
epidemic of flu that came along.
Q: No, you didn't.
A: Well, we had an epidemic. I think it was about the third year when I
was there. We had an epidemic of the flu and this was terrible you know.
The doctors didn't know anything about what the flu was. They didn't know
what to do with it. They didn't even know how to protect yourself except
that you wore a cloth over your mouth and nostrils breathing so you
wouldn't breathe in any germs. They didn't know whether it was a germ or
not. But I was busy during that year. That was a terrific year. Both
hospitals were filled with patients and the city of Springfield set up a
temporary hospital out at the fairgrounds. As soon as the patient got any
signs of the flu why he went to this place. And then when he got very
sick, Why they brought him into the hospital, see. They [the patients]
came into the hospital, some of them were so sick. I remember giving them
Extreme Unction on the way up to the room, on the elevator. When they got
to the floor they were so sick that many of them died. There were a lot of
the Sisters who died. They got the flu. They didn!t know how to protect
themselves. So they didn't have any laboratory at that particular time.
They built the laboratory when they built that wing on the west end. Why,
they then for the first time employed a laboratory man, Doctor Bain, and
Doctor Bain had charge of the laboratory. X-ray was just coming into
existence. There was up in Milwaukee, why a very good friend of the
Sisters who used to come down and he wore a pair of gloves. This was the
doctor that made the X-ray. They didn't know how to protect themselves
against X-ray and his hands got in such condition that he didn't want to
Jesse L. Gatton 17
show them. He wore a pair of gloves. I remember that.
over to the house for lunch. He was a very fine fellow.
stuff.
He used to come
This is pioneer
Q: That is pioneer things. That's right. What about the medicines at
that time? What was the treatment for flu?
A: For the flu? Oh, they didn't know how to treat it, Sister. They
didn't. They treated it like a bad cold. They gave them, you know, some
quinine and a lot of fluids and that sort of thing. But they didn't know
anything about the flu and they didn't know anything about a lot of things.
See, they were just learning and there was no organization of the hospital,
the staff or anything. They did just the best thing they could possibly
do. They didn't know what the doctors know today. This is all pioneer
stuff I'm telling you about. Well, they finally got organized and they
employed a laboratory man and an X-ray man, that was Doctor Bain. He was
both of them. B-A-I-N. And we gave him one room up on the second floor to
take care of the laboratory, one little room right next to the operating
room. And they [the Sisters] didn't have any X-ray because that building
wasn't built yet. They didn't have anyplace for an X-ray but they built on
a wing. Why they then made a place for an X-ray and laboratory together
and he had charge of both of them but they didn't know very much about it
at the time. They [X-ray and laboratory] were specialities. He [Dr. Bain]
began to go to the meetings with the doctors and he gave them a lot of
instructions and so forth. And about this· time, in the history of the
Catholic hospital and a lot of other hospitals, they began to organize the
doctors into a staff. A Father Maloney who was a Jesuit, was going around
giving retreats to Sisters and he wanted to know why they didn't have a
staff in our hospital. So he used to come down to Springfield. He heard
about Father Straub. And he used to come down to Springfield and he sat
down by the table and they argued back and forth the value of an organized
staff for a Catholic hospital and Father Straub couldn't see it. And he
[Father Straub] never joined the Catholic hospitals·. He felt that was
clear out of place in the Sisters' hospitals and they didn't need it so he
never organized a staff. So the staffs were being organized here and there
and everywhere all around the country. And we were one of the first to get
organized. Then I think that's about the time that we got the new bishop.
I had been there six years and a half and • • •
Q: Who was the bishop at this time?
A: Bishop Griffin.
Q: Bishop Griffin, okay.
A: Let me see, yes, Bishop Griffin came.
Q: Who was the bishop before that?
A: Bishop Ryan. But he lived in Alton.
Q: Did he die then?
Jesse L. Gatton 18
A: Yes, he died a short time after or right around that time. I don't
remember the year. You can get it in the [diocesan] book.
Q: Yes.
A: They have it. I think they have it. I saw it the other day. I got a
book here of the diocese and some of the information is in there.
Q: You were talking about Bishop Griffin. You were now under him and you
got a change from St. John's Hospital.
A: I got a change from St. John's Hospital. Father Tarrent was the
chancellor of the diocese and he lived in Alton. That's where the diocese,
the head of the diocese was living. The bishop was living in Alton and so
when Monsignor Tarrent was the chancellor, he had built a large home for
the children. He became chaplain, took care of the chaplancy of the
children's home. So when Bishop Griffin came to town why he brought Father
Tarrent up to Springfield with him see. And he said to Tarrent, "Who is
the man that I should send down there to your place at the children's
home?" And he [Father Tarrent] said, "Well, there's only one institutional
man and that's Father Gatton." So I got moved. (laughter) And he went
over to talk to Father Straub, Bishop Griffin, about my going and Father
Straub said, "Well, I'm very sorry about this. He's doing a very good job
at the hospital and the Sisters liked him and everybody liked him, patients
and everybody else." But I was really in the work and then however, he
said, "If you want to move him, why you move him but when I get into a
shape where I can't carry on like I ought to carry on, why then I want
permission to call him back." So one day I went down to Alton at the
crippled children's home and I remember that the nurses had gotten together
with the hospital and bought me an automobile. (laughs)
Q: They bought you an automobile?
A: Yes, in appreciation for what I had been doing, an old Hudson, a real
nice one, an old Hudson. I remember that well enough. Anyway, I went down
to Alton and I had been in the orphanage for about a year and a half,
teaching in school down there. They had the regular school inside the
orphanage. The only [children] that went out were the ones that went to
high school, went to the Catholic high school, the Cathedral, that was
right down the street. But the rest of the grades were all taught and I
used to teach Catechism and so forth in the grades. But after a year and a
half why I got a call from Father Straub and he said, "We are going to
build a hospital over in Washington, Missouri. The Sisters were running a
parish there and they have come over because the people want a hospital
there. I'm going over to see about it. So I·would like to come down to
Alton and stay all night with you and we will go over to Washington and
then I want to stop at Highland. We'll stop at Highland when we get back
and I'll stay another night with you at the orphanage." So we went over to
Washington the next day and looked around and talked to the people and
talked to the Fathers. They went out to see the grounds where this was to
be built and went over the plans. Then we went on over to Highland. They
were building over at Highland. The Sisters were living in the old part of
the hospital in a few rooms. They were building another department so
they'd have a decent place for the Sisters to live. So, we came back to
Jesse L. Gatton 19
the orphanage and the next morning when the mail came in, why I had a
letter from the bishop. He said that he wanted me to come up to see him
right away. Father Straub was coming back home on a train and I said,
"We'd go up together." "What in the world would the bishop want now," I
thought. (laughter) And so when we got to Springfield, why Father Straub
went over to the house at the hospital and I went down to see the bishop.
The bishop said, "Father Straub hadn't been feeling so well and he made a
condition that when he needed you, you would let him come back. So you are
going back to St. John's Hospital as assistant director of the order." And
so I went over to the hospital to have lunch. And I said, "Hello Father,
how do you do?" All the time he [Father Straub] knew this and never said a
word about it. Well he said, "I'm going to go to Europe and this has got
to be taken care of while I'm gone so you got to look after the building on
these two places." So he went to Europe and he was gone about six months I
think. He was born over there, you know, and he knew a lot of friends
there. He had a lot of friends over there. They [the Hospital Sisters]
had a man like Geelink over there and his name was Bolte. He came over here
afterwards and we went around to see the country. But he [Father Straub]
went over there. While he was gone I used to take care of these two
buildings [the T.B. Sanatorium and Crippled Children's Hospital]. I was
learning something about the hospital work, the building was a part of
the work. The plans were by Helme and Helme. They were two architects who
lived in Springfield, very wonderful men, Episcopalians and they knew a lot
about the hospital because they were taking care of all the Illinois
hospitals. And Berners was taking care of the hospitals up in Wisconsin.
So he [Father Straub] finally came back [from Europe] when we got these
buildings done and he went around to study the buildings. And then I was a
little freer when he got back. They had a chaplain at the hospital and he
came in and lived so it freed me of the hospital work, the chaplain's work.
After that why I went around to visit all the hospitals they had and to see
what condition they were in and to see if there was anything needed and to
meet the Sisters and to get acquainted with the whole outfit. We drove
around for a while. If the Sisters needed anything why I reported it to
the council and to Father. So that takes care of a lot of things. So I
remember we went along for some time and Father Straub finally called me in
and he said, "I've got to have a hundred thousand dollars." We started to
build. In the meantime, why they had started this building out here.
Q: The Motherhouse you mean?
A: Yes, not the Motherhouse but they started the T.B. Sanatorium and th~
handicapped children came afterwards. They first built the T.B.
[Sanitorium]. I used to get through hearing confessions of Saturday
afternoon, and Saturday evening I'd catch an interurban that was built in
the meantime between Decatur, Danville and Springfield and St. Louis. And
I used to come out on the interurban. And we got off down on the station
they had, and said Mass for them on Sunday morning because Father Guisti,
over at Riverton, used to come across the track and say Mass for them
during the week, cause he didn't have anybody going to Mass during the
week. So I used to come out on Sunday and say Mass. And the building [the
Sanatorium] was progressing nicely and they finally got down to the end of
the building there. They built on this room, this one right across from
Father Angelo there, (points) a small room and that's where Father Straub
used to live out here. He lived there, see and worked at St. John's until
they started to build this.
F.Al1ILY PORTRAIT
This picture was taken before the last two children were born.
From left to. right-
3rd row, Edgar- studied
Agnes- 3rd oldest girl
Louis- 2nd oldest boy
to be a Jesuit but died with the fluo
Mina- 4th oldest girl
Julia- 2nd oldest girl
2nd row, Lottie, first or oldest girl l'Iarion- father
Rose- mother Jesse or .Monsignor- oldest boy
lst row, Grace- died as a child Jap- third oldest boy
Frieda- youngest girl, still living.
Not pictured are one girl who died in infancy and Ambrose,
the youngest boy who was born i5 years after the last pre­ceeding
child.
HOI1E TOTdN, PA\-JNEE - 1910
FAl1ILY I1:El'l0IRS
COLLEGE AND SEI'1INARY DAYS
---~---------·
.... ·-· -·-·----·-··- --·-- -··-·--· --------- ··-·------------------·---·---·--·-------·-
' 1
SEMINARY LIFE IN ROME
CHILDREN'S H01'1.E
,.
. . . - .
RECTORY .A.Nit:.MY. HUDSON
- -·-------· .........
LIFE IN ALTON
Jesse L. Gatton 20
Q: So then he stayed out here and you stayed in at St. John's?
A: Yes, I was in at St. John's and he stayed out here. That's right. And
then of course I had to learn something about the architectual work, how to
go build a hospital. And I had been associated with hospitals for some
time and I knew all about it, what went into the hospital. We had a
laboratory, an X-ray and all that sort of thing. So there wasn't any
trouble in that part. Then let me see •••
Q: How large was St. John's Hospital? How many patients did they have at
that time?
A: Well Sister, when I came to the hospital I don't know whether you
remember, that west wing was not there, the ground floor was not there at
all, none of the west end of the hospital. They ended with the information
desk. You don't remember that old information desk?
Q: Yes, I remember the old information desk. That is where the employees
come in now.
A: Yes. It was right across where the cars are parked down that building.
So you remember that? That is as far as St. John's was built. They didn't
have any laboratory down below. They didn't have any maternity. It [the
maternity department] was not permitted in a Catholic hospital at that time
and then they started to build. They built the laboratory on the ground
floor and the library on the ground floor where they kept the records and
they built the maternity section and the emergency department was all built
at that particular time. I think Sister [Dominica] would have some dates
on that when those departments were built. And I was there. I lived there
while all that was going on. See, but my chief work was to take care of
the Sisters, of what the Sisters needed.
Q: It seems like you had a good understanding of hospital work.
A: Yes.
Q: Where did you get all your • • •
A: I just had to pick it up.
Q: You just picked it up?
A: Yes. There was no Catholic hospital out. The Catholic Hospital
Association came into existence right around this time. I don't know
whether she, [Sr. Dominica] has the year on it or not. It came into
existence at this particular time you see. And they started to publish a
monthly magazine, see. And of course they got the old laboratory. Sr.
Dominica ought to know something about that. You just grew into it and you
learned it as you went along see, and if you liked it, you really worked on
it.
End of Side One, Tape Two
Jesse L. Gatton 21
A: Why I had gone around to all the houses and whenever they had any
difficulty at any hospital why I went out to the house to settle the
problem. I remember we had a problem down in Effingham. We had the old
hospital down in Effingham and the doctors all had their offices in the
hospital and so the council decided it was time to get the doctors out of
the hospital. So there was a job that I had to do, go down and tell the
doctors to move out of the hospital. I remember.
Q: Where was that at?
A: That was down in Effingham.
Q: In Effingham. Why did you have to tell them that?
A: Because they [administration] didn't have any room over there. They
didn't have any money and some of these-departments were an income to the
hospital. The doctors were taking all the money from what these
departments earned and the hospital didn't have enough money to live on.
See, so the doctors moved out to an office downtown. The X-ray was just
coming into existence and the laboratory work was just beginning to build
up in the hospital and so we used all the room that the doctors had
occupied for an X-ray department. We had to do that with all the hospitals
because the hospital grew up with the doctors as part of it. See,
sometimes I got in a real fight.
Q: You did? (laughter) Well, perhaps we wouldn't have today what we have
if it wouldn't be for you.
A: I tell you down in Effingham, I remember there was one fellow real mad
about this change with our hospital and later on why the hospital had a big
fire. It burned down. Were you here when •••
Q: You mean the Effingham fire?
A: Yes, the Effingham fire and of course I was down there in Effingham. I
stayed there for three or four weeks to take care of things and to keep
them calm and peaceful because there were a lot of people that got burned
to death and a lot of children got burned. The insurance company had to
come in and straighten all this out and we were in a mess. I was in the
middle of it and the governor came down and we talked about building a new
hospital down there. And then in the meantime, why the department over at
the state had got organized. They had appropriated a certain amount of
money, the federal government, that came through the state department of
health and so they furnished a part of the money that went into that
hospital. I don't know how much it was, about two-thirds of it.
Q: The new hospital now?
A: Yes, the new hospital. These people could really have been upset
because there were a lot of babies that died in the hospital.
Q: In that fire. That was in 1949.
Jesse L. Gatton 22
A: The chaplain died.
Q: That's right.
A: He was asleep and he was breathing in the smoke and he got up and he
got as far as the door. I was there when they found him at the door. And
a lot of the older people and all the children were upset. They were
afraid there was going to be a lot of trouble so they [the council] said,
"You go down there." And I went down there and stayed with a fellow at the
parish. And the Sisters put up a temporary building, a hospital to take
care of the people until we could get a new building going.
Q: Do you know what the cause of the fire was?
A: No, no I never knew. But we had quite a time. You know everybody in
town was upset. Nearly everybody in town was related to somebody in the
hospital because the hospital was full of patients and nearly all were
upset. They were araid they were really going to have a job on their
hands, the Sisters, so I went down and stayed at the hospital. I remember I
used to drive back sometimes during the end of the week but I was there for
three or four weeks. And we didn't have any trouble. Finally they [the
council] had a meeting out here with all the insurance men because the ,.
hospital was carrying insurance. This was built, the Motherhouse was out
here at that time and we had a meeting out here with the insurance people
and finally got this thing all worked out without any trouble which was an
accomplishment, I think.
Q: Yes.
A: Because it could have been terrific for both, the people and the
Sisters for years and years.
Q: You must have had a good relationship with the insurance men and
with •••
A: Yes. Well, it's just the proper way of handling them I think. We had
a couple of good attorneys, the Grahams of Springfield or Fitzgerald, I
don't know Which one was there. But that was some of the things that I was
doing. And as I said we went around to all the houses. I remember for
example, we went up to Chippewa and he [Father Straub] said, "We've got to
do something up there. The place is getting old and I don't know how much
money you're going to spend but go up there and see what's needed." The
fire department was after the hospital so I made a trip up to Chippewa
Falls. We got hold of the fire department and we got hold of the insurance
company and we finally had to order a certain amount of work done. I think
it run about thirty or forty thousand dollars with work in the old
building, see. It was the only thing to do to keep the building going.
That was a job that I did in nearly all the hospitals that you have. I was
just a trouble shooter. (laughter)
Q: You were just evaluating and helping so that they could make ends meet?
A: Father Straub was not feeling well and so • • •
Jesse L. Gatton 23
Q: Would you want to elaborate a little bit about Monsignor Straub or
Father Straub? What kind of a person was he?
A: Well, he was a very wonderful man I thought. He was born in Germany.
He came over here to Rochester, New York for a while and then decided to
leave it and come out west to the Springfield diocese. I think Father
Reisen was already here [at the Motherhouse] and he [Father Straub] must
have known Father Reisen at St. Peter and Paul's. So he [Father Straub]
was the assistant at St. Peter and Paul's and he used to go over to the
hospital, in fact take care of the chaplain's work because they [the
hospital] didn't have a chaplain. He said Mass over there I think and then
when the old bishop died, why the Sisters themselves began to ask for a
director. See, that's the way he got into it. So when he became director
of the Sisters, why he moved out of the parish of St. Peter and Paul's and
he came over to the house. They had bought the house, an old house that
was right next to the hospital on the east. You may remember that, the old
rectory?
Q: On Reynolds Street?
A: Yes. He fixed up a place there for himself. He built some windows
under the house. He fixed up the place for himself and for the chaplain
and they lived in that house.
Q: You must have recieved quite an education from him too?
A: Yes, yes. You couldn't help it. Father Straub was a good priest.
See, in the meantime they [the Catholic bishops] had started the Catholic
Hospital Association and before they got it formally established, Father
Straub had written three or four pamphlets, one about: "There's no need
for a Catholic Hospital and the damage it would do to the individual
hospital." He wrote three or four pamphlets.
Q: He did? (laughter)
A: I don't know whether there is a copy in the house or •••
Q: In the archives?
A: Archives. Sister may know if there's a copy or not.
Q: I'll check with her.
A: And I was living with him all the time and going over all this.
Q: And you were thinking that it would be good to have one?
A: Yes.
Q: What was your reason for wanting a Catholic Hospital Association?
A: Well, Sister, you couldn't possibly stay out. You would never know what
was going on around the country if you didn't get into the Catholic
Hospital Associati6n. And then they [hospitals] became a certain power,
Jesse L. Gatton 24
see, and were a certain power up until a few years ago. Now they're
nothing anymore. There is a hospital association. I heard not very long
ago that they were going to give it up but they were a power around the
country.
Q: To what extent?
A: I remember that when he [Father Straub] was writing against it and he
was opposed to it so we had that difference. I wasn't a friend on either
side of this. I was listening (laughs) to both sides but I think the
council of course was following and making a decision. As soon as I came
in why shortly afterwards I guess, it was sometime afterwards that I came
in and the bishops all over the country appointed a hospital director. So
I was appointed a Hospital Director of the diocese besides being Hospital
Director nationally of this community, the only man or priest that knew
anything about that I suppose. And we used to have to go to these
meetings. We came in, Bishop Altar and I. He is living in Toledo, Ohio,
born in Toledo, Ohio. He was bishop there, a very wonderful man and among
all the bishops, very highly thought of and he had a job of working with
the Catholic Hospitals. And so he and I went to one meeting as Father
Straub had died in the meantime and he [Bishop Altar] said, "You should get
into this." I said, "I don't wish to get into the hospitals." And so we
began talking over this business and making an effort. And so we finally
brought all these hospitals into the association. He came over here. He
stayed in these rooms, Bishop Altar, for several days and we talked this
over with the council and so forth and they decided they'd take the
hospital association. This was some group to take over. I remember our
group in the hospital field in those days. The Springfield group was the
first ones to have a registered school for the state and this was normal
all over the country. So when this group took all these hospitals into the
Catholic Hospital Association why it was quite a thing. As a matter of
fact I was president of the Catholic Hospital Association for one year.
Q: Was that in this diocese?
A: No, that was national.
Q: That was national, the whole United States.
A: Yes, the national organization.
Q: So you had to what, direct them in their policies?
A: Oh, yes. They had a group of Sisters but the head of the organization,
the first head of the organization was a Jesuit because of Father Maloney.
They had three or four Jesuits who served as presidents but then finally
elected a secular. And then after Bishop Griffin died, Bishop O'Connor
came. He went down to the organization and they made him the
representative of the bishops. He didn't know anything about hospitals so
he said to me, "You've got to take this position. They want you to be the
president of the hospital association." And I said, "I don't want to be.
If you're going to be there as the head then that ought to be enough from
one diucese." But I was the head of the organization for one year, the
Catholic Hospital Association. So you can see that I'm full of it.
Jesse L. Gatton 25
Q: You did a lot for hospitals.
A: Yes, that's right and I've seen them grow. I've seen a hospital for
example up at Lincoln. We had a hospital up at Lincoln and the people in
town wanted to build a new hospital. In fact they went out to collect a
hundred thousand dollars and it was in the bank in a deposit being held for
the building of this hospital. And then Sister Lidwina finally came at
this particular time. Sister Lidwina was provincial at that time and about
a hundred thousand dollars was laid aside for that hospital and they had a
fire at the hospital. It didn't amount to much but they [the council] said
they would have to give it up so we gave it up.
Q: Was that at Lincoln, Illinois?
A: Yes. It burned down and they never replaced it. They gave this money
back to the people that had given it.
Q: Oh, but we did have a hospital in Lincoln.
A: Yes, in Lincoln.
Q: Oh, I see. It wasn't the same.
A: One of the old pioneer hospitals. You couldn't do anything with it
anymore. And the only thing you could do with most of the hospitals when I
came was just to keep them going because they were already old. They were
already built. We built some new ones like the one in Green Bay. The
Green Bay Hospital, they tore down part of the old hospital and built a new
one. We added an addition here ·and there, a small addition. It wasn't
spending a lot of money. But you know finally these things were not
fireproof anymore and the state passed a law that hospitals have got to be
fireproof and they took it back and built again. Of course some of these
hospitals I didn't have anything to do with, the building because I was out
at that time.
Q: Yes, there was a time when you were appointed to work with the
Dominicans, with all diocesan hospitals.
A: With the Dominicans? No, I went to live with Monsignor Harry who lived
with the Dominicans.
Q: Yes, would you want to tell me 0 0 0
A: No, no there came a time, when Magdalene was the Mother of Franciscan
Sisters. [During] her reign they decided they didn't need a director
anymore.
Q: And so then that is when you were changed from us and went to •••
A: Yes, I went from here out to the Dominicans. And this was under Bishop
Griffin. An order came that the director was to be a spiritual director
and he was no longer to have any authority whatever to say in the
community. The order came from the Apostolic Delegate, came from Rome,
see.
Jesse L. Gatton 26
Q: You mean the bishop was not to have anything to say?
A: Yes. There was to be no director except the spiritual director and
that's like Father Geelink is. He's director of your community, but he's
only spiritual director. He don't have anything to do with the operation
of the hospitals. Now I lived here for several weeks after that change or
notice came out in order to say Mass. Then Bishop Griffin said, "I want to
see you. You are to go down to the orphanage."
Q: The orphanage, no that's • • •
A: So I went.down there and he brought Father Tarrent up to Springfield and
then Bishop Griffin died and then Bishop O'Connor came in and Bishop O'Connor
of course said, "You're going to be the Director of Hospitals." I was living
down by the Dominicans. And so that kept me in touch with the hospitals.
That was before the fire [at Effingham] that that happened when I took care
of other hospitals in the diocese.
Q: Yes, you mentioned that.
A: Yes.
Q: Would you maybe want to sum up a little bit about your time spent at
St. John's, how you saw it as chaplain?
A: As chaplain?
Q: Yes.
A: During the first six years?
Q: When you were chaplain there.
A: Yes. I think we got quite a bit.in there that I had done. I didn't
want to go as chaplain to start with. Then the flu came along and I
really learned what the meaning of Our Lord meant when He created men.
He created them for heaven. They had to get there. That was quite evident
for so many people died. And if they got to the hospital then they had a
chance to get to heaven. And I was really busy. This was the way, my
personal feeling in the matter. So when Bishop Griffin died, and Bishop
O'Connor came in and he said, "You are continuing your work as Director
of Hospitals in the diocese in Springfield." And at the same time Father
Tarrent was the Vicar General of the diocese and he [Bishop O'Connor]
said, "You're going to be the Vicar General for the diocese." So I
had two positions at this time. I was living with the Dominicans and
the reason why I was living with the Dominicans primarily was because
they had a group down in Texas, in hospitals. They had several Sisters,
with two hospitals in Texas. One of them the doctors had given to the
Sisters. After he had given it to them he wanted to run it. He didn't
want this doctor in and that doctor in and so forth. It got so bad that
the Sisters gave it back and they were free. At that particular time
why the doctors in Jackson, Mississippi wanted to get rid of their
hospitals so the pastor of the parish was looking for a group and he
heard this incident, that there was a group coming there of Springfield
Jesse L. Gatton 27
Dominicans from Texas and he came up to find out whether they would go
down to Jackson. So Murphy and myself was in the hospital work. I
don't know Whether I told you about Murphy yet. But Murphy was an
important man in the hospital. And he knew the financial end and
the collection end. He came in to collect money. Murphy and I went down
and lived with the Pastor and stayed in Jackson, Mississippi for two weeks.
We went around to see everybody that was important to see, whether they
wanted the Sisters to take over the hospital cause they were prejudiced
in the south against the Catholics. They didn't have many Catholics and so
we didn't know whether they wanted the Sisters to come or not. We went down
to discuss the feelings of the people. We went around to see everybody that
had any influence in town. (laughter) And finally we decided to have a
dinner when we were coming home. And then that afternoon why Murphy found
out something in the office. They had forty thousand dollars of bills that
they owed for groceries. The doctors were trying to pass this debt on to
some Sisterhood. One of the doctors was very friendly to us. And he put
the dinner up. We went out to the dinner, all the doctors were there and some
of the other prominent people in town, quite a dinner. And we were supposed
to announce that we would recommend the Sisters to go and assume operation
of the hospital, that is purchase the hospital. So after the dinner why I
had to get up and tell them that this is what we found, "They had a forty
thousand dollar debt and we couldn't come down and take over a debt."
Q: This was the Dominican Sisters?
A: Yes, I said, "So if you will pay this debt off why we will recommend
that the Sisters come." So after the dinner was over one of the attorneys
came, one-legged attorney came Who is an important man in town and he
said, "If we collect this forty thousand dollars and put it in the bank in
escrow in the Sisters' name, will you advise the Sisters to come down?"
And we said, "Yes." And so within a week they had that forty thousand
dollars in the bank.
Q: They did? That was quite an accomplishment.
A: Yes. So you don't know how much good that has done the church, that
hospital. They had another hospital in town which didn't mean very much.
So we went down. We had all the printing done in Springfield and put the
money, in an envelope and drove down with the seven Sisters that came up
from Texas. They had to give it up this hospital in Texas and we opened
up this place. And it wasn't very long until the people in town began to
like the Sisters. We had borrowed one hundred thousand dollars from the
Baptists. They were quite popular in town and anxious for the Sisters to come
and to buy the hospital. The Sisters didn't have a hundred thousand dollars
so we borrowed this money from the Baptists and bought that hospital for the
Sisters. And we were suppose to pay ten thousand dollars a year for ten
years. The building was an old frame building. They collected this money
within a week and then we [Murphy and I] went down and borrowed this twenty
thousand dollars in the name of the Sisters and paid them off. They [the
doctors] all had an office in the hospital. So we went around and cut all
the telephone wires off. (laughter) This is the kind of life I [lived.]
Q: That's all right. I think this is enough for today.
End of Side Two, Tape Two